Shay Given is not a good goalkeeper

Posted by Cathal Breathnach on February 7, 2010 | 87 Comments

Ask 100 football fans to name their top 3 Premier League goalkeepers and chances are, at least 95% of those fans will include Manchester City keeper Shay Given in their top 3.

One man who certainly wouldn’t include Given in his top 3 is the Guardian’s Barry Glendenning. Anyone who listens to the Guardian Football Podcast will know exactly what Glendenning thinks of Given.

His theory is that it’s no longer a coincidence that every team Given has played for has a poor defence. Glendenning also feels that if Given was any good, a bigger club like Arsenal would have signed him by now. I must admit, I am starting to agree with Glendenning.

If you take a look at Manchester City’s goals against column this season, you will see that in 23 Premier League games, Given has conceded 32 goals. Compare that to the likes of Mark Schwarzer at Fulham who has conceded 28 goals in 24 Premier League games this season, whilst Joe Hart has conceded just 23 goals in 23 games at Birmingham.

The one thing you have to give Given is that he is a terrific shot stopper, however his lack of organisation and some of his decision making, which is quite poor at times, lead me to believe that Given is not an all-round good goalkeeper. Whenever the likes of Jamie Redknapp or Mark Lawrenson say something like : “Without Given, City could have conceded 4 or 5 today” it always annoys me. I always think the opposite : “Without Given, City may not have conceded 2 or 3 goals today.”

You may think I am being a bit harsh on Given, however, as an Irishman, who has been following Manchester City for years now, I strongly believe Given is not a good goalkeeper.

What do you think? Comments below please.

Comments

87 Responses to “Shay Given is not a good goalkeeper”

john
February 7th, 2010 @ 3:32 pm

It’s true that he very rarely comes for crosses and doesn’t even command his own 6 yard line!

That’s coming from a City fan by the way.
Deano
February 7th, 2010 @ 3:39 pm

your talkin bolloxs
Marcus Veller
February 7th, 2010 @ 3:39 pm

I think you are a moron…
Cathal Breathnach
February 7th, 2010 @ 3:41 pm

Deano & Marcus, you’re entitled to your opinion but would you mind trying to back up your points as to why I’m “talking bolloxs” or why I’m “a moron”?
mancityfans
February 7th, 2010 @ 3:57 pm

I guess you re right. Or maybe i don’t really fancy his style of goalkeeping bcos of his preference to stand guard by the goal mouth. Should Given come out to challenge crosses i think it would make him a better keeper like Peter Shilton, Pat Jennings, Ray Clemence etc…
BOHTOX
February 7th, 2010 @ 5:05 pm

cathal I have lost all respect for you and your judging ability is questionable at best.
You think Given and Gomes are bad you’re such a fuckin douchebag. Given is 6ft he cannot collect crosses like a 6 ft 4 goalie .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgKkRRom7vY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTb7ykqpL1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OHFJpOqNxY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXE0rwxBwlk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAj28eN1xr0&feature=related
Blue in Spain
February 7th, 2010 @ 5:08 pm

I have agree with you!
When Given came to City he played pretty good and made great saves, however, although he is a great shot stopper he looses it once he leaves his line.
Lets get Hart back to the team!

As for comments like “bolloxs” and “moron”, why ask for a backup comment, stupid comments like that are never backed up. Morons just say something without having any reason for it.
Dean
February 7th, 2010 @ 5:08 pm

Shay Given is rubbish??
And let me guess, your a Van Der Sar fan? What type of arm chair supporter are you, how can anyone say they dont rate Given. I agree that he isn’t behind the best defence in the league but he is the best keeper in the world at the moment and thats unquestionable. You stick to writing shite columns in shite newspapers that sport fans aren’t interested in you silly person.
BOHTOX
February 7th, 2010 @ 5:09 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq5oD0nP5jw&feature=related

and keep the change ya filthy animal
AZ
February 7th, 2010 @ 5:44 pm

Cathal, this opinion is so ridiculous that people don’t need to back up their points when arguing against it. It’s obvious to everyone. Shay Given has been one of the signings of the season. You must never watch football. Or, if you do, you must not understand it. I guess you’re a woman. Btw, Glendenning talks much garbage too.
Cathal Breathnach
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:06 pm

AZ – sorry for having an Irish name

Just how has he been one of the signings of the season?

Dean – I’m not a Van Der Sar fan and to say Given is unquestionably the best keeper in the world is just down right stupid.

Have you heard of Casillas or Akinfeev or even Jose Pepe Reina.

BOHTOX – I never questioned his ability to come and get a cross. Also, I’m a douchebag for saying that Given isn’t a good keeper. That makes sense anyway!

Keep the comments coming people
BOHTOX
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:09 pm

so how is he a bad keeper Cathal?
mark whittaker
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:11 pm

I have to agree, a great shot stopper but does not control his defence or the box. I am a big blue and x keeper the first thing my dad told me was anything inside that box is yours. I know he is not the tallest but if your touched these days its a foul. Just look at Uniteds winner 6 yard box – should have been the keepers ball. Yesterday v Hull he did not actually make a save!!

Bring back the mighty Joe
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February 7th, 2010 @ 6:12 pm

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handras
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:19 pm

he is a delightful keeper. id name him best in the prem by far, and how is man city not a big club
JizzmasterD
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:22 pm

Shut up you bunch of period heads, i dont fully agree with cathal but its easy to see where hes coming from. Him being a city fan at the moment is gonna make him quesion how city are droping points and its clear that the defence and keeper are at fault, mostly defence though.
Cathal Breathnach
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:27 pm

Well BOHTOX, first of all, I never said he was a bad keeper, I simply said he wasn’t a good one.

The reason why he’s not a good keeper –

Given has conceded more goals than Birmingham, Fulham, Stoke, Aston Villa and all the teams above City. It’s too easy just to blame the defence all the time.

Also, some of his decision making has been poor this season and has cost City, most notably, his decision not to come out and collect the ball during the Carling Cup semi away to United. He could have easily got to it, however he let Giggs have it and United duly went onto to score in the same attack.

I’m keen to hear why you think he’s such a great keeper?
Cathal Breathnach
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:29 pm

Handras, I never said City weren’t a big club.

“if Given was any good, a bigger club like Arsenal would have signed him by now”
BOHTOX
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:30 pm

didi you not see the vids Cathal what did you think i was posting porn
Cathal Breathnach
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:36 pm

So you think a few 5 minute videos of a player making a few quality saves, who has been playing football for over a dozen years, proves that he is a great keeper?
JizzmasterD
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:50 pm

Mate the videos mean nothing, im sure i could find videos of lucas, voronin and the likes where they look class. And we all know given is a world class shotstopper, that all the videos show, its other aspects of his game that he lacks quality.
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February 7th, 2010 @ 6:54 pm

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Cathal Breathnach
February 7th, 2010 @ 6:59 pm

Jizzmaster, you may have a ridiculous name, but you are making a lot of sense!
Shay Given is not a good goalkeeper | Football Corner « Anees Khan
February 7th, 2010 @ 7:05 pm

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Alphie Izzett
February 7th, 2010 @ 8:21 pm

Cathal, you raised my hackles as soon as you started to commend the views of thet arch dong brain Glendenning of the Grauniad. That man has epitomised the sneering journo tendency which looks down its collective nose at the ‘City’ revolution and somehow manages to incorporate his rather nasty establishmentism into the ‘interlekchewal arrogance’ of that once champion of equality of opportunity and outlet for liberalism and creative thought.

Shay Given is a very good goal keeper. He is not Petr Cech, neither is he Edwin Van de Sar, he is not a giant like these or a stunning athlete like Jammo and all of those make mistakes. Jammo was in charge of his box (unlike JT) but too often misjudges things. What Shay has is lightning reflexes and he saves us time and time again by defending his line.

If Shay is to be your keeper you need commanding centre halves because Shay will stay on his line and defend it and leave his defence to control the space in front of him.

Now Joe Hart, there’s a thing!
Good though I believe Shay to be, I think that Joe could be better and be most things that you seem to be looking for.

Not everything of course. Seems to me you’re looking for a magician!
Richie
February 7th, 2010 @ 9:06 pm

The title of the article is stupid and designed to provoke an antagonised responsed. Of course he’s a “good” goalkeeper – you don’t have a lengthy career starting in the top flight of English football and as number 1 for a decent international side without being at least “good”. The real question is whether he’s among the top 10-15 goalkeepers in the world or not quite at that level. I take the point that there are some weak spots in his game (i.e. coming to catch crosses, commanding his area) but I think he makes up for this by being very strong in other areas and it’s too early to judge whether he can hold his own at a team with top four aspirations. Wait and see how he gets on over the course of a couple of full seasons at Man City first. They’ve signed a lot of players, had injuries and repeatedly shuffled their defence around, it’s no wonder they’re so leaky at the back.
Independent Blue
February 7th, 2010 @ 10:43 pm

Shay Given lacks the all-round qualities needed to be a good goalkeeper – he is a brilliant shot-stopper, and he has been trying under Mancini to distribute the ball to defenders, and come out to crosses etc, but you can see every fibre of his being is crying out for him to punt the ball up the pitch as far as he can.
We will never be able to pass the ball around from the back, and through midfield with him in our team, if he doesn’t drastically improve his shortcomings, and I for one don’t think he can change, as he’s too long in the tooth now, and too short to be a top keeper.
He gives no support to the defence, and never has. All those Newcastle defenders got labelled as bad defenders in front of him, he comes to City and we suffer the same – good defenders all of a sudden turn bad.
Anyone who cannot see this who watches City regularly must be fucking blind, and obviously knows nothing about goalkeeping, and playing football on the ground.
The sooner he’s off to Villa to join Dunney, another long ball merchant, the better. Then we can get on with building a proper football team.
Oh, and I get to see Van der Sar every week as my wife supports scum, and I can confirm he is ten times the player Shay given is, and was when he played for Fulham too. There is nothing disloyal about recognising other teams’ strengths and our weaknesses – how are we to improve otherwise?
The goals against facts don’t lie, the sooner the problem is dealt with, the better – or do you like watching Darren Fletcher taking the piss with us at least twicw a season?
e-dogg
February 7th, 2010 @ 10:47 pm

what a load of bollocks that is! for them saying hes nt good for conceding more goals than birmingham and fulham theyre wrong. you cant blame 95% of the goals on him because the defence has been all over the place this seaseon, and yes he has made some mistakes but so have every other goalkeper out there!
Dextersmart
February 7th, 2010 @ 10:51 pm

I really will want to see Kasper (The friendliest ghost) Schmeichels at the goalkeeping position for City. The judgment by Shay Given is getting worse as each game goes by. He has been a major contributor to the demise of our beloved Manchester City.
Everestmindz
February 7th, 2010 @ 10:52 pm

Call me watcha want but I always speak my mind. I have 2 words for Mr Shay Given.

SABOTAGING MANCINI.
Cathal Breathnach
February 7th, 2010 @ 11:26 pm

Alphie – I agree with you, I think Joe Hart is better than Given and personally I hope he is City’s number 1 next season.

Independent Blue – agree with everything you said.

Dextersmart – I would also like to see Kasper back at Eastlands, however City stupidly decided to sell him instead of loan him to Notts County.

Keep the comments coming!
Boris
February 8th, 2010 @ 1:25 am

Very fair point. I don’t think that City should think about replacing him but his communication with his defenders this season has been non-existant. Also this thing about waiting until the last second to clear the ball is going to catch him out sooner rather than later.
tom1991
February 8th, 2010 @ 4:13 am

Man City’s demise, were in such a good spot, what a load of shit. if u cud hav had this table at the beggining of summer wd u hav taken it, i for one definataly wud hav, were right in the mix for top four. we hav players coming back from injury so we can only gedt better. as for the shay given question anyone hu sys shay givwen is a bad goalkeeper is an arsehole, o he may not claim crosses, how many big keepers are there out there tht wud be as good as given is for tht price. hes even tht bad at claiming crosses, he tends to punch them bcos he is small he cant gwet the elevation that a 6ft 4 keeper can. joe hart wud be no better, he is alot worse than shay given at claiming crosses yeh hes doing well but i guaruntee it wont last. the guy tht wrote this article cudnt be anymore wrong
ming the merciless
February 8th, 2010 @ 6:53 am

shay given is without doubt one of the top 3 keepers in the premiership.
the goals against column at city is 100% due to our chopping and changing at the back , injuries, african cup and basically poor quality defenders!
why Mancini didn’t buy a couple of quality ,experienced defenders for the seasons run in i just dont understand, we probably will miss out on the champions league places due to this glaring mistake but please dont put the blame on shay cos he’s pure class!
Neil
February 8th, 2010 @ 7:20 am

What a dreadful article, hes a fantastic keeper
jimbo
February 8th, 2010 @ 8:45 am

lol ‘BOHTOX’ comments are hilarious.

Given is a quality shot stopper but considering he doesn’t come for crosses it causes a problem. I reckon Hart should be back at the end of the season and has to be given a chance, if he is sold to birmingham it will be a disgrace.
dave@shepton
February 8th, 2010 @ 9:40 am

I don’t think what Cathal says is a problem that is unique to Given. Look at the goal conceded by David James against Portsmouth. Rooney headed it in from virtually under the bar. James could have come for it but chose not to. Van Der Sar was the culprit in the Carling Cup Semi Final first leg. Carlos Tevez again, scored inside the six yard box with Van Der Sar flailing around all over the place.
I think the main reason why so many keepers fail to dominate now is that the balls are so light and move all over the place, that they are scared to come out, in case they are caught out.
Stop messing around with the balls, give them back caseys, then you would see keepers re-claiming the ball on the penalty spot.
Woodsy
February 8th, 2010 @ 10:12 am

Cathal – Before you ask, No, I will not be backing this up with anything, because I don’t need to.

YOU ARE A MUPPET, WITHOUT A CLUE!!!!!

Simples!
Woodsy
February 8th, 2010 @ 10:16 am

Independant Blue – Are you having a fucking laugh? Your wifes a rag so you get to watch them every week?????????
So basically you go to United games. Well fuck off and support them then. I’ve never heard anyone try and win an argument as a City fan by telling us all how much better the Scums keeper is than ours and to back it up by saying you know what you’re talking about because you see him every week. The fucking nerve of ya!
Listen, if you go to stretford so much, you will remember that had Given not been in net against the horrible bastards in the 4-3 debacle then it would more likely have been 7-3. KNOB HEAD!!!!!!
Paul Jones
February 8th, 2010 @ 10:19 am

Well have you actually looked at the defences in front of him, Newcastle when did they have a half decent defence. Shay saved them on so many occassions. At Citeh we are in transition and the one constant is more often than not Shay does his job. Alumnia now there is a crap keeper. You are talking BOLLOX
Cathal Breathnach
February 8th, 2010 @ 11:45 am

Woodsy – I was at the 4-3 derby defeat and to say we would have lost 7-3 if Given wasn’t in goals in a ridiculous statement.

If we had of had a world class keeper in goals that day we would have won the game, no doubt about it.
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Adam
February 8th, 2010 @ 12:35 pm

What a load of bollox from you do you even follow football ?
steve
February 8th, 2010 @ 1:04 pm

shilton, jennings, clemence – all keepers who played when the ball was heavier and corners and crosses were far more predictable in their flight. Coming for crosses is not Shay’s strong point – it wouldn’t be, he’s only around 6 ft tall ! Tell me the keepers who are 100 % great at collecting crosses – they have all had moments they would rather forget. Forget Cech, VDS no longer commands, both Almunia AND Reina have flapped them into their own net. Timmy Tourets didn’t even get off the ground against Kuyt. To say Shay is not a good goalkeeper is garbage mate – The only one in the prem I’d have instead is probably Friedal and then maybe Buffon but they are maybe both slower getting down low. I’ll stick with Shay mate.
Pete
February 8th, 2010 @ 1:18 pm

I’m a City supporter and have felt for some time that Given is not as good as the media make out. I think the same about Gareth Barry. The press spend alot of time creaming their pants over the pair of them and whilst I realise they are both decent players they are nowhere near as good as most people make out. Given’s lack of ability on crosses is obvious and it can’t make things easier for a defence.
blue
February 8th, 2010 @ 2:39 pm

Have to disagree with you, Shay is a good keeper, but he is not the best. Poss the best shot stopper in the prem. But if city want to start winning trophies then we need the best alround keeper. Placing clips of great saves proves nothing I could prob find just as many clips of fuck ups.
Tony Tango
February 8th, 2010 @ 3:37 pm

Cathal, I think the problem here is that you said Given is not a GOOD keeper. Whatever his weak points are i don’t believe anyone can deny that at the very least he is good. If you had said he is not brilliant or not world class
then you may have a point, but then you can also argue that we are not, at present, a world class team and do not have any genuine world class players (although Carlos could be on the way there) So in the context of who we have got and who we have so far been able to attract, you’d have to say that he is probably the best we could have got.
P.S. He saved us from a second half mauling in the first leg of the semi, four one on one’s from Rooney alone. He IS a GOOD keeper!
independent blue
February 8th, 2010 @ 3:57 pm

Woodsy,
you are a myopic nincompoop, I did not say I went to the Swamp every week, I said I get to see most of the rags games, forgot to qualify that by saying I see them on the telly, specifically Sky TV. I also watch a load of other teams on this fantastic invention, such as Barcelona.
You and all the other dimwitted Gorps who love to watch conference style football should take yourselves off to Wycombe Wanderers or wherever will have you to watch the type of game you obviously enjoy.
The thing is, now that you have been informed of Shay Given’s weaknesses, and the way he constrains our team to the long ball game, you will start to see we are right in our assessment of him, never mind the eye-catching spectacular saves he pulls off, and you too will see he is only good at part of his game.
The goalkeeping position is vital to a team, a bad goalie has nowhere to hide, unlike a lazy left winger for instance, and really affects those in front of him.
I was chuffed to bits when MH signed Shay, but as time went on, I became disillusioned by him. Roberto Mancinini has obviously had a word with him, as he is trying to come for crosses, and distribute the ball to our players, but he doesn’t look at all comfortable with it, and dithers and dallies until he is left with no option but to hoof it again.
I suspect RM has his number, and he will be replaced in the summer if he does not improve.
Woodsy, you can’t back up your opinion, because you have no defence apart from to insult those of us who actually think about what is happening at our club. Therefore your opinion is worth Fuck All, and I would suggest you cease bothering us until such a time as you engage your brain before putting your drivel online.
PS. I would love it if you decided to apologise for your ignorance, but you won’t will you, ’cause you’re not man enough are you?
independent blue
February 8th, 2010 @ 5:01 pm

I forgot to address the points made about Shay only being 6 foot tall, and so unable to go for crosses.
SWP is not very tall, but no-one suggests he should go in nets, because of the fact he’s not tall enough to be a keeper at the very top.
Is the penny dropping yet?
Unless you can leap like a salmon, and you are small, you aren’t going to be able to cope with Premiership teams whipping crosses in to the nasty big strikers, and central defenders at corners, and Darren Fletcher of all people.
It’s not rocket science.
A clever keeper will use his arms to compensate for lack of height, and catch or punch a ball, thereby giving the defence the edge over the strikers, Shay is reluctant to do this at all, never mind do it regularly in every game. Because he doesn’t do this, he cannot be seen to “flap”, like all the great keepers sometimes do, and so Shay the Myth lives on.
If you don’t do something, you can’t get it wrong, and be blamed for it – someone else has to take the responsibility for crosses, and that’s our defence.
Kasper Schmeichal at least had the bottle to make the 5 yard area and even beyond his own, despite his lack of stature, and he trusted his defence enough to pass it to them in plenty of time for them to do something with the ball other than to pass it back (leading to the big punt up the pitch).
Ask yourselves why we don’t pass the ball out from defence with all these top class international defenders and midfielders, and the answer soon becomes apparent.
Go on, someone disagree with this.
And if you do, please tell me what you think a great/good keeper’s responsibilities are, and compare them to Shay Given’s performances, before dismissing this as “bollox”, or calling me a rag or a moron.
Tony Tango
February 8th, 2010 @ 5:29 pm

Independent Blue, you’re a rag moron.
Only joking pal,very interesting points made and this article and comments will make me look at Shay’s performance a lot closer in the coming weeks.I do think that his shot stopping and reflexes do make up for his lack of height and command of his area but to what degree I’m just not sure. I do think that our defence has to take some of the blame though. Many Arsenal and Everton fans highlighted the weak points of Toure’s and Lescott’s game before they arrived and I would say that they currently represent poorer purchases than Given. Whatever the cause of our defensive problems I feel someone like Hangeland would have been a cheaper and much better option. Now get working on your girlfriend and get her painted Blue son!
independent blue
February 8th, 2010 @ 5:47 pm

Thanks Tony Tango,
agree with you about Toure, he seems scared to death out there on the pitch, no way Captain material, but then who would have predicted that before we bought him?
I think Lescott was making great progress before his injury, he was taking responsibility and going for balls he previously left – I think he realised Toure wasn’t going to be the one to do it eventually, so he started to step up to the plate. I think he’ll come good again.
I do think SWP is suffering from a lack of quick throws out to the wing from the keeper, which he used to relish. He rarely gets to receive the ball in full flight, and so can’t use his pace and skill to best effect. He just seems to run into a brick wall when he goes at an already prepared defence from standstill. We have the best wingers in the Prem, but don’t give them the service they need.
I genuinely worry about the way we can’t seem to put a one touch passing game together, in the Barca style. In theory we have the players now, and we’ve had several managers who’ve given it a shot. To me the problem lies at the back still – no need to elaborate any further on that.
Don’t think I can persuade ‘er indoors to change allegiance now, been with her for 23 years – that is some length of time to put up with the rivalry – and boy is she a sore loser!
Doocey
February 8th, 2010 @ 10:40 pm

Shay Given is one of the best keepers in the world. I’m a Newcastle fan. I’ve watched him save a crap defence from blushed for 10 years.

This guy is probably the best shot-stopper in the world and is a right professional on top of it.

If you think Shay Given is pap then please do take a look at him down through the years.

Cathal, as fellow Irishman I must say I have to disagree and comment that Shay Given’s on of the best in the world if not the.

I’ve seen a lot of him than most City fans, and Cathal, how could you dismiss Ireland’s greatest ever keeper?
Cathal Breathnach
February 8th, 2010 @ 11:53 pm

Doocey, I agree with you that Given is an incredible shot-stopper. Some of the saves he makes are simply out of this world, however to say he is one of the best keepers in the world is way off the mark.

He can’t organise a defence. Lescott was class at Everton and Kolo Toure was one of Arsenal’s best players, however since they have joined City and started playing in front of Given, suddenly they are shite defenders? They get blamed for everything whilst Given continues to be branded a great keeper.

Doesn’t make sense to me, sorry.
uwe rosler
February 9th, 2010 @ 8:29 am

I have coached football for twenty yrs now and I would have to agree with the article to some degree but admittedly I would love to here from some people pundits who have experience in goal rather than just reacting to his shot stopping which seems to attract all the publicity.

Shay has made some great saves but many would have not been needed to be made if he collected a cross or commanded his box.

Examples, all utd 3 goals in 2nd leg semi, last one rooney is heading the ball with his feet on the ground in the 6yd box. 2nd goal he anticipates a near post shot instead of watching the ball. UTD away in league he watches fletchers header go in as he thinks it is going wide. Many examples at the start of the season, people blaming toure/lescott who were defending deep and demonstrating a lack of decisiveness when going for a ball thumped deep into the box late on. This indecision comes from the fact that shay should have commanded the box more
independent blue
February 9th, 2010 @ 9:41 am

No doubt about it that Shay is a true professional, and a thoroughly likeable decent bloke, but he is a one – trick pony as far as I’m concerned.
Robinho has a world of tricks and flicks, and sometimes breathtaking range of shots and passes, but he can’t tackle, head the ball, or generally get past defenders, as he has no real turn of pace. Even with all these talents, what he lacks is enough to mean he is unsuited to playing in a team challenging to break into the so-called top four. (Perhaps if our team were all round stronger, like Barca, we could carry him, but even they seem to have cooled their interest).
This topic has been raised before about Shay, and a fair few Newcastle fans came out and stated their reservations about his all round play too. He fortunately had Alan Shearer to punt the ball up to, probably the best striker in the last decade or so to play that system, we do not.
Watch him tonight against Bolton on Sky, and see how often we concede possession from the long ball up the pitch, or he passes the ball out after dithering, forcing the defender to pass it back to him, then he punts the ball again – once you see it, it drives you mad.
I don’t even think he’s the best all round keeper on our books, never mind in the world, or the Prem, but he’d definitely be first choice in any five a side game, where the long ball is banned and shot stopping is everything!
Cathal Breathnach
February 9th, 2010 @ 10:18 am

Uwe Rosler & Independent Blue – Everything you guys said is spot on. The 3 goals in the Carling Cup semi 2nd leg, all could have been avoided if Given could command his area more.

Chances are he’ll have a decent game tonight, City will win 2-0 and all those who said Given is one of the best in the world will think they have won this argument, however like you two, I have watched Given so many times this season and I know that when any decent side play City, he struggles big time.

Keep the comments coming.
CCCracker
February 9th, 2010 @ 10:37 am

Given no good? Well what happened to Newcastle as soon as he left? You moron.
independent blue
February 9th, 2010 @ 10:58 am

CCCracker

February 9th, 2010 @ 10:37 am

Given no good? Well what happened to Newcastle as soon as he left? You moron.

It’s not what happened at Newcastle that’s at stake Mr CCCracker, it’s what he’s doing at City now we’re debating about.
We all know Newcastle went through a series of managers from King Kev to Sam Allardyce (long ball man), onto the caretaker Chris Hughton, in such a short space of time, club up for sale, fans revolting, they were doomed by Xmas anyhow – Shay Given got out whilst he could, and Newcastle were glad of the money.
They’re doing rather well now in the Championship and look like they’re coming straight back up, playing good football (without Shay Given).
Please try not to talk bollox, and show yourself up as a moron next time. Read the whole thread, not just the headline, and you might spare yourself some blushes.
Harv
February 9th, 2010 @ 11:37 am

Our defence was a great big bucket of shite long before Given arrived at the club. He is one of the best (if not the best) GK in the league. Just a shame he’s not a few inches taller.
Doocey
February 9th, 2010 @ 5:16 pm

Doocey, I agree with you that Given is an incredible shot-stopper. Some of the saves he makes are simply out of this world, however to say he is one of the best keepers in the world is way off the mark.

He can’t organise a defence. Lescott was class at Everton and Kolo Toure was one of Arsenal’s best players, however since they have joined City and started playing in front of Given, suddenly they are shite defenders? They get blamed for everything whilst Given continues to be branded a great keeper.

Doesn’t make sense to me, sorry.
–

Can’t agree sorry.
When Given arrived at Manchester City in January of 2009. He practically saved ye’re blushes against Middlesbrough if I can remember correctly. Not only that game either. Plenty others.

I’ve watched Given for 10+ years and have seen every aspect of his playing style because he played in front of such a bad defence.

To tell the truth, City’s defence has been pretty woeful this season and that’s what you’d expect with a brand new back 4 besides Micah Richards.

I personally think that the defence at man City does deserve the blame rather than shifting it onto Shay.

Fantastic keeper, great lads, true professional (and Irish)
What more could you want in a footballer?
independent blue
February 9th, 2010 @ 6:35 pm

“What more could you want in a footballer?”

Another couple of inches would be nice, said the actress to the bishop (fnurk fnurk)
Cathal Breathnach
February 9th, 2010 @ 9:51 pm

“Chances are he’ll have a decent game tonight, City will win 2-0 and all those who said Given is one of the best in the world will think they have won this argument, however like you two, I have watched Given so many times this season and I know that when any decent side play City, he struggles big time.”

Best prediction ever? hahaha

Once again Given was unconvincing. His decision to punch the ball clear in the 1st half was questionable. Then, in the 2nd half, he decides to try and let Elmander score by kicking it straight at him. What was he thinking?

Keep the comments coming
independent blue
February 9th, 2010 @ 10:30 pm

Still a bit shaky as you mentioned Cathal, but I did see a genuine attempt tonight to pass the ball on to our defenders, I think he must be working on this part of his game.
I also think the punches were attempts to dominate his area, albeit not very confidently done.
I really do hope he gets his act together and becomes the keeper we all want him to be.
BOHTOX
February 9th, 2010 @ 11:52 pm

I knew you’se would have a field day after tonights game. Judge Given ,not on tonights performances, on his ability and strengths. Given is 6ft not 6ft 5 or 6 he cannot control his box like a tall goalie . Given makes up for this by being a world class shotstopper and he makes up for this in abundance. Given is a worldclass keeper and anyone who doesn’t think so is probably thinking that because hie mate or family member inserted an opinion in your head and your too stubborn to change it.
independent blue
February 10th, 2010 @ 8:05 am

At last, a semi-reasonable defence of Shay Given as a “world class” goalkeeper.
If you think his shot-stopping makes up for his lack of height and his overall distribution skills (which he does seem to be working on), then that’s a valid point, which I can respect. I still think to be a world class keeper, or even a top half of the Prem keeper, you need to be good at all goalkeeping duties, not just one aspect.
Unfortunately the second part of your post about being influenced by family or friends, is not correct in my case. I thought it up all by myself, and I can assure you I will gladly publicly retract my criticism if Shay continues to develop his all-round game, as it means City will be more successful as a result,which is what we all want in the end.
dildo jones
February 10th, 2010 @ 10:09 am

You do know you’re talking out of your a*se? man city and newcastle have terrible defences. it’s not given’s fault in the slighest. he rarely makes a mistake. in fact, if you look at the amount of saves he made throughout his newcastle career, you can see how many games he actually saved newcastle. that guy who doesn’t like given obviously is up his own a*se and has no clue about real footballers. he probably supports man united…
Cathal Breathnach
February 10th, 2010 @ 3:12 pm

Dildo Jones (ridiculous name) – If you actually read the article you will see that I am a Man City fan.

And if you read the comments you will see that most of the people commenting are Man City fans.

Also, none of use have said that Given is not a world class shot-stopper.

Seriously, if you are going to comment at least read the article and some of the comments that go with it.
BOHTOX
February 10th, 2010 @ 5:40 pm

I think we can end it on this.
1. Given is a WORLD CLASS keeper.
2.If he was 3 or four inches taller he would be the best in the world.
and 3.What Given doesn’t have in height he has in his ability to saves shots and organise defences.
independent blue
February 10th, 2010 @ 5:47 pm

Dear Dildo Jones,

I have taken your advice and spent all day watching every game Shay Given has ever played in for club and country, and can confirm you are totally correct.
Shay Given is a perfect footballer in every respect, and has never ever made a blunder or chickened out of his responsibilities in every single game he has played in.
Having now been shown the error of my ways, I too have come to develop a girlish infatuation with him, like you, and I would love to have his babies – can you imagine the bliss? Me, you, Shay, and a veritable football team of little Givens, all living together in perfect harmony, forever and ever.
And everyone would support Man City, there would be no United, and we’d win every single game we appear in, 10 nil, at least.
Cathal Breathnach
February 10th, 2010 @ 8:21 pm

68. BOHTOX –

“I think we can end it on this.

1. Given is a WORLD CLASS keeper.

2.If he was 3 or four inches taller he would be the best in the world.
and

3.What Given doesn’t have in height he has in his ability to saves shots and organise defences.”

So you think you have just won the whole argument by saying that because Given is a world class shot-stopper he’s a world class keeper? Seriously, wtf?

We have highlighted Given’s weaknesses in the previous 60 odd comments and then you say he makes up for it by making great saves. That’s brilliant.
BOHTOX
February 10th, 2010 @ 10:58 pm

“So you think you have just won the whole argument by saying that because Given is a world class shot-stopper he’s a world class keeper? Seriously, wtf?”
Ye pretty much.
“We have highlighted Given’s weaknesses in the previous 60 odd comments and then you say he makes up for it by making great saves. That’s brilliant.”
I don’t get your point.
independent blue
February 11th, 2010 @ 8:54 am

yeah Cathal,

can you be more precise?!!

Time for a new topic of debate methinks, or perhaps an instructional piece entitled “how to differentiate between one’s anus and one’s arm joint”, or perhaps “how to recognise the blindingly obvious even when it’s pointed out to you, or has struck you on the cranium”.

I would seriously like to thank you for opening this topic up again, it took some big nuts to do so, as the unthinking abuse that inevitably comes your way should you dare to question the true value of a player currently in the fans’ good books is quite intensive.

Keep up the good work, you never know, people in authority may read these forums and gain a bit of knowledge from them, and lets face it, if you are going to put fingers to keyboard, it may as well be for an interesting and stimulating topic, unlike the boring shite peddled by the MUEN, like “who would you pick for today’s game” – FFS!
Cathal Breathnach
February 11th, 2010 @ 11:01 am

Independent Blue – What I’m saying, is that BOHTOX can’t just end the whole argument by saying that Given is a world class keeper when we have spent the past few days discussing the reasons why he is not.

You were one of the people who agreed with me originally, however just because he kept a clean sheet at home to Bolton you have suddenly changed your mind? That doesn’t make sense to me.

BOHTOX – I do appreciate your input into the discussion, I really do, however to say that Given is a world-class keeper because he makes he makes really good saves, I can’t agree with.

He can’t organise a defence, he doesn’t command his box and his decision making at times is questionable. That is why I feel Given isn’t that good a keeper.
Pat
February 11th, 2010 @ 1:44 pm

Given has weaknesses (which have been well documented above) like any other keeper but he is still without a doubt, 1 of the 3 best keepers in da EPL.

Ye talk about the City defence & say they r not to blame. Well I strongly disagree. Defending is all about having an organised, settled. cohesive group i.e the Birmingham defence.
When u look at the City defence this year, it has been constantly changing which leads to a lack of cohesion & familarity.

Anyone who thinks Toure is still a quality defender is sorely mistaken. He is past his best, & Arsene Wenger made clowns out of City when he conned them into wasting £14 million on him. J. Lescott, T Vermaelen & J Evans are 3 random examples of quality defenders.

In Lescott’s case he has been injured for a big chunk of the season which has been the main hindrance to the City defence. When Lescott & Kompany develop a defensive partnership at the heart of the City defence, wit W. Bridge at left back & M. Richards at right back & all play alongside eachother regularly, then and only then, will we see City become a formidable tight-knit defensive unit at the back. And with De Jong protecting the area in front of the back 4, I can see City go on to be an extremely hard nut to crack.

So to sumarise:

- Given has weaknesses like any other keeper.
- Given IS 1 of the 3 best keepers in the EPL
- City’s defence has been unsettled this season & is to blame for their poor defensive record.

Can anyone disagree wit anything i have written?
Pat
February 11th, 2010 @ 2:00 pm

Oh and btw i meant to make a comment in relation to keepers organizing their defence & collecting crosses etc.

Given will establish an understanding with the defenders in front of him as they will do with eachother when City establish a settled backline. It is not Given’s fault. Arguably communication all across the back is weak due to the unfamilarity of the players.

And this ‘collecting crosses’ business. Very few keepers in the modern game can claim ‘collecting crosses’ as a strongpoint of their game. All these people comparing Given’s aerial ability to Shilton & others are living in the past. Can anyone who watches the EPL week in week out tell me what keepers consistently collect crosses & command their area effictively. Just to name a few

P. Reina – No
P. Cech – No
T. Sorensen – No
E. Van der Saar – No
M. Schwarzer – No
J. Hart – Maybe (in fairness prob the best in this department from what i have seen)

Would especially like to hear logical feedback on this??
BOHtox
February 11th, 2010 @ 4:11 pm

Cathal in my post on 68 I didn’t think I was winning the arguement. You really can be a stubburn fucker.I simply asked can we end it on this which was a summary of all the posts posted before me. I tried to end this because it is just drrrrrrrrrrraaaaaagggggggggeeeeeeeddddddddd on and not because I thought I won
independent blue
February 11th, 2010 @ 4:13 pm

Cathal,

sorry I was being sarcastic, I think you have been as precise as humanly possible about the Shay Given issue!
I haven’t changed my mind about him, I stand by my earlier comment I think he isn’t the best all-round keeper on our books, let alone in the Prem.
However, praise where it’s due, I think Mancini has had him working on his distribution and getting him to at least punch out crosses and corners etc, and I have seen an improvement in the last couple of games. This does not mean I do not tremble in my boots whenever I see him flapping at the ball, and despairing when I see him bypass our defence and midfield with the big punt up the pitch when a simple short pass would do.
In response to Pat’s assertion no other keeper is any good at commanding their area regularly, I would say we have gone from discussing average to good keepers, to world class, which is where we want to be.
I think all the “top four” keepers are reasonably good at this, possibly Gomes at Spuds too, and the best keepers in the world such as Cassilas, are also very good in this department. It may well be the modern football swerves around making life hard for keepers, but they do have to try.
I have criticised Shay for not even trying, at all, before Mancini came to City. I accept all keepers will flap at crosses at some stage, but the benefits of trying to support your defence outweigh the occasional high profile clanger – not to try is cowardly in my opinion.
David James makes the odd rickett doing this, but no-one can accuse him of bottling it, and he’s still a quality all-round keeper.
Granted our defence is/has been a mess this season, but they’re all seasoned players apart from Boyata (who seems to have an old head on his shoulders), and should be able to handle passes to them, and at least organise themselves in a basic fashion. I can’t put all the blame on the defence this season, Shay has to take some responsibility in my eyes.
Again, I want to see Shay work on his weak areas, but those who say he doesn’t have any, or they don’t matter, particularly when we’re hoping to compete at Champions League level, are somewhat misguided in my view.
dave@shepton
February 11th, 2010 @ 4:17 pm

In not post 75 exactly what I was saying back in post no 37 (i think). Very few keepers command the box like they did in the 70’s and 80’s. The balls have changed. Boots have changed to accommodate the change in the balls, kicking styles have changed. The ball moves all over the place now. No keeper in his right mind wou,d attempt to come for across anymore than 6 to 8 yards from his line because he knows embarrassment will follow.
Cathal Breathnach
February 11th, 2010 @ 4:24 pm

“Cathal in my post on 68 I didn’t think I was winning the arguement. You really can be a stubburn fucker.I simply asked can we end it on this which was a summary of all the posts posted before me.”

68 : BOHTOX – “I think we can end it on this.”

It doesn’t appear to me that you were asking if we could end it in 68 does it?
independent blue
February 11th, 2010 @ 4:26 pm

Dave,
before Mancini came, Given would not have taken those six to eight yards either, God forbid he should think the eighteen yard box was his to command. He rarely left the goal line.
independent blue
February 11th, 2010 @ 5:16 pm

Oh and “no keeper in his right mind would attempt to come for a cross” nowadays, well who said keepers were mentally stable? In fact, it’s always been seen as a quality of a great keeper that he’s a bit nuts, or a lot nuts as in the case of Bruce Grobbelaar!
dave@shepton
February 11th, 2010 @ 5:34 pm

Independent Blue.
Absolutely agree, Given for years had glue on his feet, but does appear to be trying. Needs though to be convincing when he comes and let his defenders know what’s happening. Is he a good goalkeeper? absolutely. Is he in the top 3 in the premiership? absolutely. Is he a top 10 world Goalie? Absolutely. Is he the best in the world. Shit no.
independent blue
February 11th, 2010 @ 6:36 pm

For me the real reason I’m on a downer with Shay, is that he gives away our possession of the ball far too cheaply, the issue with crosses is still important, but not as big an impact on the whole team and style/tactics as his preference for the long ball.
My benchmark for how I want us to play is the Barca way, which involves playing the ball swiftly from back to front, via midfield, and staying up top until we’ve scored, or come close.
Shay bypasses our defence and midfield, and in recent times, we’ve had no-one to effectively play the long ball game, not least because we’ve only had a lone striker up top, never mind the fact they’re usually small in size!
A whole host of strikers have come and failed in this system, and before Shay was here, Dunney was booting the ball up the pitch willy-nilly (and yes I blame him too for our lack of flowing play when he was here).
Sven couldn’t get the team to stop hoofing the ball, and neither could MH. The answer is to replace ALL the long ball merchants, or retrain them.
Our defence is constantly in danger of attack, there is no respite when we lose possession, and when we do get it, and pass back to Shay, he punts it again. This is bad for morale, unless you are the one who looks good from making last ditch tackles or spectacular saves, which needn’t have happened in the first place – then you get to be Captain, man of the match or player of the season – you sure as hell aren’t going to win any of these awards if you’re a midfielder or a striker who never sees the bloody ball unless it’s coming down out of the sky with icicles on it!
Our wingers suffer from the lack of opportunity from a quick break from a ball thrown quickly down the wing – SWP is most effective when he has momentum going – from a standstill facing an already organised defence he struggles, and I’m sure Robinho, for all his faults, could have done with better service than he got.
We have to have two or three defensive minded midfielders to win the ball back, when we lose possession, and so again the forward line suffers from lack of support, and they have to put a shift in too – thank God Carlos Tevez and Craig Bellamy put in the workrate of two players each, and are true world class players, without them we’d be fighting relegation again I fear.
So to sum up, a keeper can affect the entire team adversely if he is not proficient in all his duties, and this is why I would replace Shay Given at the first opportunity, until he has improved all his game to the level required for a top European team.
BOHtox
February 12th, 2010 @ 4:46 pm

Pat I agree with you nut I feel given’s weakness is his height
BOHtox
February 12th, 2010 @ 10:36 pm

I meant to say but not nut
Blue Moon
February 16th, 2010 @ 10:22 pm

Great article – and I’m a Man City season ticket holder.

Given is fast becoming a liability. Worst keeper we’ve ever had at collecting crosses, doesn’t speak to his defence at all and generally just looking like an awful signing.

We’ll be replacing him in the summer with the rumours of Mancini not fancying him.
David Carr
February 27th, 2010 @ 10:26 am

Hey Cathal Breathnach, you obviously know nothing about goalkeeping with your ludicrously off the mark comments! Try asking the people who really understand what Shay Given is about – his fellow goalkeepers! I’m afraid you won’t like what you will hear!